Fiat Dino Forum (FDF)

I need to rebuild both master cylinders.
Is it easier to fight the wiring harnesses, or remove the Dash ?
Michael

Michael, I have once done the job removing and installing a brake master cylinder on a Dino Spider 2000. It’s a very challenging job as there is limited space under the dash and the coupling nuts are almost not accessible. I did it without removing the dash. But took away the steering wheel and the plastic housing under the steering column. The challenge was to unscrew the coupling nuts for the brake fluid lines. You need good tools. Wrenches with very fine toothing, as you can move the wrench only few centimeters.
You may save nerves by taking off the dashboard. This, again, requires taking away the steering wheel. There are some (4 or 5?) hidden screws under the dashboard (left and right to the center console and I believe close to the courtesy lights), which fix it. Then you have to open the cable connectors behind the instruments and loosen speedometer cable. And the three large chromed bolts on the top side. I would recommend to take of the minus cable of the battery while doing this job.
The nuisance is to install back the dashboard. There are some “tongues” on the front side of the dash, which must slip under a plate. Speedo cable is annoying. Etcetera.
So either way you do it, it is an annoying job.
Have not worked on the clutch cylinder, but it should be better accessible.
Good luck.
Georg

I have a 67 coupe. I replaced the brake master from under the dash. It was pretty challenging as all the fittings come off at interesting angles to mate with the hydraulic lines and there is so little room to swing fairly large wrenches on the fittings.
Someone on the FDF told me [after I had done the work] that if you have the style hydraulic fittings where they attach to a fitting on the engine compartment side of the firewall, it is easier to drop the whole pedal box with brake master, clutch master and brake booster. I saw the bolts for doing that when I removed the brake fluid reservoirs, but I didn't make the connection in my brain. That is the same sort of procedure that makes replacing the brake master on a 115 Alfa Romeo easier. Unless the spider is radically different than the coupe, removing the dash will not make it easier to access the hydraulic fittings.
Ben Higgins
1967 Dino Coupe 2000

GaryS sent me these instructions for removing the pedal box to access the clutch and brake hydraulics:
As for the pedal box - It is so difficult working on the hydraulics in car - once you remove the box once, you realize its always your best method. First time can be a bit more time consuming but us not a difficult job. But - does your car have the 3 - 10mm fittings (2 front 1 rear line) threaded into larger union nuts mounted in the firewall or are the brake lines coming straight out of the firewall ? With the union nuts its a go, not so sure what the workaround is for the straight thru piping.
remove plastic colum cowling
remove steering wheel
remove colum stalk assembly
remove colum shroud at the firewall
remove bolt through colum universal joint at the firewall
remove electrics to the ignition switch (make sure battery is disconnected)
loosen 13mm nuts and remove the 2 long bolts supporting steering colum to bodywork. Note that there is some wiggle adjustment room pertaining to final fitment w dash and cowl. Not sure that matters but good to be aware of it.
remove the colum assembly from car
Disconnect brake vacuum hose from the booster
remove all fluid from the 2 brake and clutch resevoirs
disconnect both brake fluid inlet hoses and clutch inlet hose from there firewall connectors. use rubber vacuum caps on each open tube to prevent a mess
undo the 3-10mm brake nipple nuts from the firewall, plug as best you can. I made long headed brass 1" long bolts w angled ends at a point and handscrew into the receiver nut to prevent fluid loss.
remove the 13mm clutch line from the firewall connector, plug and cover as best you can
Now ...
loosen 2-13mm bolts going into upper firewall from inside the engine compartment. If working without assistance its ok to remove the bolts. If you have a helper, do not remove these bolts just yet
loosen the 2 bolts in each lower corner of the pedal box, if you have a helper. remove them now
The assembly is ready to come out, but it has some weight to it - 10lbs + I would guess. If you have an assistant you will need to position yourself to support the unit and then have the other person undo those 2 top bolts while you maintain balance with the box. Without a helper you need to juggle those 2 inside bolts out while preventing this contraption from a sudden drop onto various body parts.
remove from footwell to workbench
installing is straightforward, but having a helper is again advantageous for aligning and starting the bolts, preferably the uppers first.

Thanks all of you, for confirming this is probably the worst job on the car
I think I’m going to go Mr Higgins way, a lot of work but probably
Less frustrating
Michael

RE: Spyder 2000

PTSD just thinking about the job. The whole car is built around those parts.

It is do-able. I think the most important thing is to be on the right frame of mind. Be patient, don't rush. piece by piece and it will get done. I didn't have to remove my dash.

I think removing the right side cam cover is amazingly tough! Had to do this to do the post rebuild head re-torque and valve adjustment. My trick was to lower the engine.

How we love them so!

Thanks for the info friends.
I think I have found an easier way
If you go to the back of the car there are two round holes that look like pipes. I think you can get to the bolts via those two holes

I finally got to do the replacement of the brake and clutch master cylinders. It was not as difficult as I thought it would be.

First things first.
Place a tray in the footwell to catch the brake fluid which WILL leak out even if you think the circuits are dry. an old towel under the tray and up the sides helps to!

Remove steering wheel.
Remove steering wheel/ ignition switch cowels.
Unplug the two wiring looms for the headlight, indicator and wiper controls on the column. Remove the entire switch assembly.( makes access much easier)
Remove the two steering wheel bolts and pulled the column towards the center of the car.
Hang the column and switch setup with a line or a couple of zip ties.
I tackled the brake m/c first. With proper pipe spanners it’s easy, you need 13&15mm sizes. Just take your time. Hopefully you can rebuild because a new m/c is about€450.
Reinstall and then tackle the clutch m/c.

First remove the clutch m/c reservoir, then unclip the rubber pipe from the steel pipe in the engine compartment.
Do not try and remove this pipe from the m/c yet.
Remove the pipe from the m/c to the slave cylinder.
Using a long extension on your socket, remove the 2-13 mm bolts.
Now you can wiggle the M/C out from under the dash.
Don’t remove the large banjo fitting unless you are changing the M/C.
If you are changing the M/C, take pics of the exact orientation of the pipe, you will be reinstalling it before reassembly. And if it’s not aligned properly it will be difficult to push thru the bulkhead.

Reinstall in the same order ( you just get a bit more room to work with as the B/C has more pipes to attach)

General note for anyone who hasn’t worked on brake pipe fittings etc. my dad was a Master Mechanic, he told me “ if you can’t screw the pipe nut into the fitting by hand! You don’t have it aligned properly”
So when you dismantle this type of fitting, take care not to bend the pipe connection.

The whole think took me about 5 hours including rebuilding the brake M/C.


Finally check that none of the pipes are in contact with any moving parts like the pedals or steering column.

Michael