Water pump pulley alignment 1967 206 coupe

Technical Topics and Discussions

Moderator: alh

Post Reply
bhiggins2
Posts: 140
Joined: Wed Jun 24, 2020 5:54 pm
Dino: Fiat Dino 2.0 Coupe

Water pump pulley alignment 1967 206 coupe

Post by bhiggins2 »

I mounted the water pump pulley on my brand new Dinoparts water pump yesterday. It is their German built and tested one that sells for 440 Euros.
The pulley sticks out a good 5mm+ too far forward and doesn't line up with the crank pulley groove. I attached a photo. The water pump pulley is on the left and the crank pulley on the right. Has anyone else run into this problem? and if so, what is the solution?? I don' know if the water pump pulley hub can be pressed further onto the shaft. I guess anything I do will require removal of the water pump at this point. Thanks, Ben
Attachments
20200929_143807.jpg
Luis A
Posts: 86
Joined: Tue Oct 31, 2017 12:35 am
Dino: Fiat Dino 2.4 Coupe

Re: Water pump pulley alignment 1967 206 coupe

Post by Luis A »

I don't mean to underestimate you but the website shows a "Type C" for the later cars (2400) at ~440 Euros, what you said you paid, and an early one, "Type B", for the 2000, at 233 Euro. You sure you ordered the correct one for your 2000?
Scalino
Posts: 179
Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2017 7:22 pm
Dino: Fiat Dino 2.4 Spider
Location: The Netherlands

Re: Water pump pulley alignment 1967 206 coupe

Post by Scalino »

I would contact dinoparts before doing anything, I always find them most helpful.
bhiggins2
Posts: 140
Joined: Wed Jun 24, 2020 5:54 pm
Dino: Fiat Dino 2.0 Coupe

Re: Water pump pulley alignment 1967 206 coupe

Post by bhiggins2 »

I don't believe you can't fit a type C pump onto an early Type B timing cover, the bolt holes are different at the one end, and I have it installed on the engine now which is a late 1967 but an early 2000. I didn't sit the new pump and old pump next to each other since I disassembled the old pump with the intention of rebuilding it for 193.38 Euros (https://www.dinoparts.com/en/parts-acce ... water-pump) but since I just painted the engine compartment and all the bits and pieces in the engine compartment, I didn't want radiator fluid leaking on them for up to 4 hours while the new bearings in the pump sealed. Radiator fluid can damage some painted parts. I had that problem on my 1978 Jeep CJ7 after spending much time painting timing covers, crank pulley, new water pump, cooling fan, etc., and a small leak from a hose damaged much of the paint. I made the decision to go with the special water pump even though it cost twice as much.
This is the part I ordered:
https://www.dinoparts.com/en/parts-acce ... check-if-b
It says the current price is 439.11 Euros, but my receipt says I paid 378.54 Euros right next to the list price of 439.11 Euros?? Both "special German" pumps for the 206 and 246 are listed at the same price but as noted, one is type B and the other type C.
I have sent an email to Alfred at Dinoparts with the photo. I hope they respond soon.
bhiggins2
Posts: 140
Joined: Wed Jun 24, 2020 5:54 pm
Dino: Fiat Dino 2.0 Coupe

Re: Water pump pulley alignment 1967 206 coupe

Post by bhiggins2 »

I just realized that living in the USA, I don't pay VAT so that is the difference in the listed 439.11 vs 378.84 Euros for the German manufactured pump. Sorry for the confusion.
dinoverde
Posts: 330
Joined: Wed Nov 27, 2013 5:56 am
Dino: Fiat Dino 2.0 Spider

Re: Water pump pulley alignment 1967 206 coupe

Post by dinoverde »

i recently replaced a water pump on a fully rebuilt engine with a pump coming from Dino parts. Perfect fit and alignment.
I would make sure your pulley is fully engaged on the water pump(if you had the parts repainted.. ce center hole can be a tight fit..
If it is have you had your bottom crank shaft pulley removed recently due to engine work?
bhiggins2
Posts: 140
Joined: Wed Jun 24, 2020 5:54 pm
Dino: Fiat Dino 2.0 Coupe

Re: Water pump pulley alignment 1967 206 coupe

Post by bhiggins2 »

Crank pulley was removed to replace the oil seal and reinstalled torqued to specification.
It was really hard to see in my first photos the misalignment without a vertical reference. In an effort to accurately measure the misalignment and mathematically describe the problem, this is what I did:
Today I placed a brand new belt on the crank pulley and water pump pulley and a magnetic level on the crank pulley. See photo
I jacked the back end of the car up until the level indicated the crank pulley was plumb. My driveway has a slight slope from front to back. Reading a level is subjective and could be off by a little bit.
I measured the clearances with the inside caliper tips, but I had to turn the calipers to show in the camera and it looks like I am off but that is just to get the readings in the photos.
The distance between the level and the crank pulley was 18.05 mm. See photo
The distance between the level and the water pump pulley was 15.59 mm. See photo
This is an out of alignment of 2.46 mm. In reality, it looks like double that.
The next step was to measure the old pump and new pump parts.
The shaft of the new pump is 3.6 mm longer than the old shaft. See photo with all the measurements.
The hub on the new pump is 10.0 mm thick and the hub on the old pump is 8.64.
There is no way this pump is a bolt-on replacement without modification.
Last night I sent an inquiry to Dinoparts, Alfred Gurtmann, telling him I had an issue and asked if he had a solution. I didn't have the data above, but my guess was that there was a ~5 mm misalignment. His response was to 1. See if the hub could be pressed on a bit further. There is only 0.090" [2.3 mm] of clearance between the hub and bearing, so maybe I could get 1 mm there. and 2. Turn the hub down in a lathe 3 mm. They obviously know there can be issues with this pump as the amount they suggested removing falls right between my estimates of 2.64-3.6 mm [3.12 mm would be the average]. They asked if it would be acceptable for me to make the modification. Fortunately, I have a friend with a metal lathe, so we can make the adjustment. I'm just out the gasket and the time to remove the pump, make the modification, reassemble the pump, then re-install. I hope in the end it is worth the effort as I could have rebuilt the old pump in less time and for much less money.
So, beware if you order this pump, it may not be a bolt-on installation unless you like to shred belts. I'm aware that working on old cars, often you have to make modifications. I'm writing this so that it might be helpful for the next person.
Ben.
Attachments
Crank pulley is plumb for vertical reference
Crank pulley is plumb for vertical reference
Crank pulley to level
Crank pulley to level
Water pump to level
Water pump to level
New and old water pump measurements
New and old water pump measurements
Post Reply