Gemmer steering box

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doublegarage
Posts: 212
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Dino: Fiat Dino 2.4 Coupe
Location: California, USA

Re: Gemmer steering box

Post by doublegarage »

Thanks all for the help here and for the private messages also - I am replying to them but at the moment they're stuck in "outbox" and haven't been sent - not sure why. This happened before but they did ultimately get sent.

-Richard
Fanalone
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Re: Gemmer steering box

Post by Fanalone »

Hi all


I just had to digg deeper into this, and discovered this company in Argentina!
www.chsauto.com
So I e-mailed Tham and asked about spareparts for the steering box, and got this nice answer.

Thank you for your contact.

We know the Gemmer France 5401 FT1 steering boxes very well, because we have manufactured the spare parts for this model many years ago.
So, we confirm you that we can help you with the Gemmer 5401 FT1 steering boxes for Fiat Dino.
But nowadays we need to manufacture it again because we are out of stock of these kits. And it requires a mínimum batch.

How many kits are you interested in buying?

Our complete repair kits include the following NEW parts:
- 1 (one) Gear worm & shaft.

- 1 (one) Roller-kit ( 1 roller, 1 pin for riveting, 2 oversize washers & the full complement of needle rollers)

- 1 (one) Lower bearing set ( 1 cup and 1 cage with tapered rollers )

- 1 (one) Upper bearing set ( 1 cup and 1 cage with tapered rollers )

- 2 (two) Oil seals

- 2 (two) Housing bushings or needle roller bearings.

- 1 (one) Gasket ( for sector shaft cover )

- 1 (one) Set of shims ( for adjusting the gear worm ), it includes :

4 shims of 0,2 mm thickness, 1 shim of 0,1 mm and 1 shim of 0,05 mm.

Optional : we can add two thrust roller bearings (cage with needle rollers), one on each side of the roller of the sector shaft in order to improve the sliding friction by rolling friction.

By the way…..where are you from?
We remain at your dispossal for help you.
Regards.

Ricardo jr.
Eng. Ricardo Cavallero jr.


Anybody out there whit some experience with this company, seems promissing?
BC5222
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doublegarage
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Re: Gemmer steering box

Post by doublegarage »

That does sound extremely interesting, yes!

It seems like they want to sell sets of parts, and not receive used boxes to rebuild. Fair enough. I guess my next question would be..would they maintain stock of parts or would they insist on selling a batch of parts to one customer?

Either way it sounds like we need a count of how many are needed.

Put me down for 1

Thanks for finding them.

Richard
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doublegarage
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Re: Gemmer steering box

Post by doublegarage »

fyi I also wrote to CHS and received the identical reply - basically, they want to know how many sets I would order.

So I have called and then emailed Superformance in the UK in the hope that they would take on the minimum order quantity (MOQ) and stock parts for us - we will see what they respond.

-Richard
Luis A
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Re: Gemmer steering box

Post by Luis A »

No price/quantity quoted to you?
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doublegarage
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Re: Gemmer steering box

Post by doublegarage »

Some notes on my recent experience of trying to rebuild the steering box on my 1971 2400 Coupe.

I did finally remove the Pitman Arm - The solution was as Georg suggested: Soak with penetrant while heating with Oxy-acetylene while fixed in a press while hitting with large hammer. It came apart with an 'explosion' (I wasn't actually there at the crucial moment) and broke part of the press, but the steering box survived.

Inside, however, the news was not so good - some pictures of the worm/roller attached here.
IMG_0201.jpg
IMG_0203.jpg
IMG_0200.jpg
dinoverde
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Re: Gemmer steering box

Post by dinoverde »

send me private message.. i have all the parts you need..
herve
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doublegarage
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Re: Gemmer steering box

Post by doublegarage »

It was clear from adjusting the box on the bench (note: virtually impossible while mounted in the Coupe chassis because of inaccessibility of the adjuster) that there was an improvement to be made from slackening the adjustment (I have no idea why it 'tightened up' by itself..) - however, also obvious from the pictures above that the real problem is a worn (pitted? corroded?) worm.

MrFiat on Ebay claims to have spares of those available for $980 - a bit 'steep', therefore I decided to first rebuild with all new bearings (see below) and see whether any worthwhile improvement was found that way, before spending that money.

I had already bought the upper and lower worm shaft bearings from DinoParts, also DinoParts bearing balls (instead of the caged bearing sets that were original). This reassembly did not go well.

First, as DinoSwede points out, the correct size for the lower worm-shaft bearing is 47.23mm. Certainly that was the size of the bearing in my box. DinoParts sells this and calls it "OD 47mm", for which I assumed "close enough, they probably mean 47.23" and ordered it - but they supplied something that's exactly 47mm and therefore useless. Their upper bearing race part is correctly 46mm and therefore fits. Their bearing balls that they say
"must be fixed for the assembly in the bearing shell with grease" are the wrong size entirely - so I had to use the old balls (note the correct part number is 9925017 or 9916359).

So I finally re-assembled (would be wrong to say "rebuilt") with:
- old worm and roller
- new upper worm race but old balls
- old lower worm race with old balls
- new roller shaft needle bearings
- new seals everywhere
- carefully cleaned/lubricated pitman arm assembly
- filled with Penrite steering box lube
- carefully adjusted on bench

Net result - it's better than before, say a 30% improvement from a 70% degradation over years. Still some "notchiness" at right of center, but improved. I need a new worm for sure (roller is in perfect visual condition) and replacement of all other bearings/races. But the worm-pitting is the main issue.
Last edited by doublegarage on Sat Jul 25, 2020 5:04 am, edited 2 times in total.
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doublegarage
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Re: Gemmer steering box

Post by doublegarage »

Just a quick note that, last time I asked (in May 2020, I think) Superformance hadn't made any progress in agreeing with CHS on supplying new parts kits for these steering boxes. I haven't contacted CHS since the initial query.

-Richard
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DINO_UYU
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Re: Gemmer steering box

Post by DINO_UYU »

doublegarage wrote: Sat Jul 25, 2020 4:41 am Just a quick note that, last time I asked (in May 2020, I think) Superformance hadn't made any progress in agreeing with CHS on supplying new parts kits for these steering boxes. I haven't contacted CHS since the initial query.

-Richard
Hi Richard.

I too need to repair my steering box and I live in Montevideo, Uruguay. Just across the water from Buenos Aires, and I speak fluent Spanish.

So I may be able to help with this. I've just messaged CHS. They'll still want to sell in quantities, but I can't imagine I'm alone in needing a steering box rebuild.

Do you ever sort yours out?
Thanks!
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